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Latest Ratings: Bad Week for B&B/Y&R/GH; DAYS #1 18-34 | #3Viewers | #2 18-49
Topic Started: Oct 22 2008, 10:37 PM (2,474 Views)
Loretta3938
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I do think the writing is involved, even in cases where fanbases are involved. Shippers will ship...no matter what, but the story does play a part, too. Often, it's not the favorite couple they're watching. I appreciate angst in all couples...even when it seems unsurmountable. What I don't and haven't accepted is the bad writing on the stories. I love Ejami, and still do, even with all the things that have come. Unfortunately, the show has already hit me with two other stories...Kate's cancer that I won't watch beyond the diagnosis of cancer. I've lost two people to cancer this year and I have no desire to see such a storyline, even if it is done responsibly. Now I've heard that Trent's killer will be named, and the person they've named is someone I don't think would stab Trent in the back. I may not have loved this character since he arrived in Salem...but I don't buy this story...even if it would give the actor a good storyline and he wanted to leave the show. So Days already has two strikes against them for that and I'm tottering near the edge of a cliff now and losing all hope for Ejami would probably be the last straw.

This has happened with other shows I loved at one time and lost...and I walked on each of them because of something that happened that provided the final trigger. So each of them had one thing that I referenced that made me want to let go, with two it got harder to stay, and the final blow just sent me packing. Even with fan bases, I think there is something besides losing a beloved couple...it just became the last straw. At least that is how it was for me.

Loretta
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Rick
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Dreamlander

The internet killed soaps.

We want to bitch and moan about so and so not being on next week so we don't watch. We read spoilers on paper and if it doesn't sound great we don't watch. We don't like the HW so we don't watch. We know too much about backstage drama and it tarnishes the soap.

Soaps in the UK are still going strong because they air in Primetime and they don't release detailed spoilers a month in advance. The audience still has a reason to tune in because of the excitement of not knowing what's going to happen.

It's like watching the movie "The Sixth Sense" You can comment on how great the acting was, but when you already knew that the lead character was dead, the movie sucked. It's the same with soaps. Once we were able to read complete recaps and spoilers weeks in advance, the excitement of watching a serialized drama went away. We already know what's going to happen tomorrow so the old cliffhangers no longer work. I stopped reading spoilers and my enjoyment of DAYS and even GL have improved tenfold.
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Steve Frame
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I so agree Rick.

I can remember reading about many movies in the past who even had special disclaimers urging people not to reveal the ending of the movie to others after they left the theater. They knew it would spoil it for them and the movie would not do as good.

I can remember years ago going to Nashville to see Deathtrap and as we left that night one of the actors stepped out of character and urged none of us or the press to reveal the ending of the play.

As I had in my signature awhile back. Spoilers is a good name because that is what they did - they spoiled soaps.

I still love the movie The Usual Suspects but every time I watch it now it is not as good as the first time I saw it because I know who Kaiser Sosay really is. It just does not have the same impact anymore.

We have lost the longing and angst for the drama there, and then couples are just being written without anymore too - so the combo of the two is just really bad. One of the big things that hurts with the big supercouple - true love to the end - is that you also know that no one is ever going to be a serious threat to your couple anymore. Why some get so mad about it leaves me speechless.

Writers are actually too chicken to let a threat be serious anymore and fans won't allow it to happen either. So why get your panties all in a wad about it. At the end of the day you know that the writers are not going to break up Zendull, Bope, etc. They don't have the balls to go there anymore.

Years ago you didn't know that. You took threats seriously and you enjoyed the ride.
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Rick
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Steve Frame
Oct 25 2008, 03:30 PM
Writers are actually too chicken to let a threat be serious anymore and fans won't allow it to happen either. So why get your panties all in a wad about it. At the end of the day you know that the writers are not going to break up Zendull, Bope, etc. They don't have the balls to go there anymore.

Years ago you didn't know that. You took threats seriously and you enjoyed the ride.
You know, That's one of the reasons I loved JER's writing on Passions so much. He didn't care to piss off the audience and he actually liked doing it. He had the balls to break up Passions supercouple, Shuis. I was a hardcore Luis and Sheridan fan and thought they belonged together, but in the end I cared more about Luis and Fancy that I did Shuis. He took chances and sometimes it paid off and sometimes it didn't but he never rewrote story (Passions) just to please the fans.

I guess he paid the price for not keeping the audience happpy though because Passions went from 2.8 million viewers and 2.2-2.5 at it's height to the numbers that got them cancelled, which btw are better than the current soaps.


Passions two month average when cancellation was announced

Viewers 2,174,000
Households 1.6/5
18-49 Viewers 832,000
18-49 Rating 1.3/8
18-34 Rating 1.4/8

Compared to the current ratings

Passions Viewers and HH numbers are higher than GL
18-49 Viewers are higher than OLTL, AMC, B&B, ATWT & GL
18-49 Rating would be tied at #2 with DAYS/GH
18-34 Rating is +.4 higher than the current #1

Kind of makes you wonder how the soaps are going to make it more than another couple years?
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King
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Daisy, I don't know. I heard from someone "in the know" recently that all the soaps are losing a lot of money.
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Mason


There's no way that the people who matter are satisfied with what little profits they're making from the soaps. Sad as it is to say, in 5 years, the only soaps I still see remaining are Y&R/B&B/GH. And in ten years, I'd be shocked if even Y&R was still standing.
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daisysmommy


The best info I have seen on profitability of soaps is in Broadcasting & Cable. There have also been several books written about it (last one pub'd in ~2004). The problem is, the #s aren't ever broken out very well, so it's hard to make out full revenue streams (and these days there's licensing both to cable and abroad, as well as itunes to bury into the mix). That said, it is certainly still a profitable genre-- just less and less so every year. And it is in a downward spiral...so I don't disagree the networks will look to dump them if they can get Rosie O'Donnell back on the air, etc.
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FanODays


I agree about the internet and the number of spoilers that are out there. It would be interesting to see if soaps stopped releasing ANY spoilers if it would help the ratings and the general buzz about soaps.

I expect GH's numbers will go up because it sounds like they have their usual good stuff saved for sweeps. Robin and Patrick get married and have their baby, Luke and Laura reunite and I assume Dante will meet his father at the very end of the month.
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SpriteEyes
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esp13
Oct 24 2008, 01:49 PM
Personally, I think we're all using the wrong terminology. Of course soap operas are about making fans happy. If fans aren't happy, they aren't watching the show. Do you really think any show can survive with an audience that doesn't like the product onscreen? The problem isn't that TPTB are focused on making fans happy, the problem is that TPTB have forgotten that the #1 most important ingredient in making your fans happy with your show is telling a good story. It's not events, gimmicks, shock value, or even keeping two characters together forever. It's creating strong characters and telling stories that allow those characters to connect with the audience in all different ways.

The other problem is that viewers have lost faith in the show to do the characters or the story justice and TPTB have lost faith in their viewers. In the past, there were always storylines that had viewers screaming in the middle of them. But, deep down the viewers had faith that the payoff would be worth the pain, and TPTB had faith that no matter how mad the viewers might be at any particular time in the story, they'd stick around to the end and that end would ultimately make the fans happy.

So, I don't blame the fanbases for screaming bloody murder. They've always done it. And, these days, they are more often right than wrong. I blame the TPTB for forgetting the most basic rules of storytelling in favor of schlocky gimmicks and quick fixes.
:cheers: :applause:

It seems to me that a major problem is because they're trying to make ALL the fanbases happy and all they're doing is pissing them all off.

Can anyone think of anyway in Salem they can make the Ejami, Ejole and Lumi fans happy? Cuz I can't.

The writers need to think of a story and tell it. I understand they might have to make adjustments to the stories they're telling but if they can do it logically and not use a brainchip or mass hypnosis to backpedal it would be easier to swallow.
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hops
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Steve Frame
Oct 24 2008, 01:42 PM
Yeah but even those fans are sticking to the show. They get mad about the least little thing and quit.

AMC killed off Dixie to placate the Zendell fans and lost the Tad/Dixie fans. All they are doing is just setting themselves up for bigger falls. I fear for the character of Bianca right now on AMC. She is a threat to Zach and Kendall now and although not ever Zendall fan demanded Dixie's death or delighted in it - many did. And believe me right now the Zendall fans are not happy at all. I just wonder if Pratt will give in and get rid of Bianca like McTavish did Dixie.

TPTB are stupid fucks. As I said before the fans do have some blame but so do TPTB. I mean when you say this demo is the one that is important all you are saying to the others is you are not important. You can go fuck yourself for all we care. And that is what they do when they placate one fanbase to make another fan base happy. Maybe that is what Higley is doing right now. Maybe she is sayign well I can't make any of you happy so none of your faves will be together.

Who knows? All I know is taht trying to hold on and placate fan bases is killing the soaps and soon there won't be any fans left who even give a damn except for a few here and there.
As a couple fan (John & Marlena) if they gave me half of what they promoted for J&M this year I would be pretty happy right now. But they didn't. For J&M they had a great set up and it would have ended up an umbrella storyline with EJ/Tony/Stefano et al. But for some reason they killed that story. To top it off they got rid the hero's and we are left with, to me, a pretty unappealing group on the front burner. They need to bring Belle back to balance that group out. In the end, if the writing is compelling, they will bring in some kind of an audience. I don't think you can blame fan bases, it's the general fans who dictate the ratings.
Edited by hops, Oct 26 2008, 07:43 PM.
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Kyrai
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I don't know about other soaps, but as far as Days goes, I don't think the problem is fanbases. I think soap writers don't know how to write good stories anymore. We're not getting decent stories (I'd argue we're not getting stories period).

All days seems to write lately is bed-hopping never-ending triangles with rich young spoiled people that it's hard to care about. At the beginning of the year, the J&M story had a promising start, but after the plane crash, it floundered terribly as they obviously struggled with where to go next. Had they gone anywhere, it would have been better than the waffling mess we were subjected to. We don't get stories that encompass the community anymore or that have any relevance to anything aside from boy a wants girl a who wants boy b who wants girl b, and they go on FOREVER because the writers don't seem to know how to write anything except boy meets girl. That is the problem!

Sure the fanbases want to see their couples, but if there were good stories, it wouldn't matter as much because the stories would keep us entertained and watching. When we're not seeing any kind of story on the screen, what else is there to do but wish they were using your favorite characters? And our favorite characters have shown what they can do in a good story, so we'd like to see them in action, not standing on the sidelines doing nothing when the show is boring.

There are good stories out there that can be fun and adventurous like the 80s and 90s were, but we need good writers to write them.
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Mason


If you ask me, it's a whooole lot of factors that have led to the downfall of soaps. Blaming just one group is too simple.
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PhoenixRising05
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Steve Frame
Oct 24 2008, 07:13 AM
They are not doing anything else than they have done in the past. All the shows have focused on the demos but the press releases are no more than ABC's press releases. It is not what they are focusing on - it is spin. That is what ABC has done with it's press releases for years and they get called on it all the time. Everyone says they can't wait to see how ABC will spin the bad ratings this week. They usually do it by focusing on the time slots their shows won or the demos they are leading in. They don't try to focus on the overall ratings. NBC is just following suit.

I am back to watching AMC because of the tornado story but I am also staying tuned for OLTL and GH most days. AMC is the only one with anythign to brag on, but as I posted over on anotehr board AMC nor any of the soaps can recover from this mess. AMC is finally focusing on more than just the sextette and general fans love the show. But guess what all the talk across the Internet is about the fan bases and how unhappy they are because they are getting pissed on. Well boo hoo.

Sorry fan bases but you are killing the very soaps you claim you to love. No matter what the writers do they can't make you happy. For years I ahve complained about how bad soaps are, but I am slowly coming to realize that no matter what the writers do they can't win. IF they try to keep the couples happy they get boring and the fans complain. If they backburner them or just show them to prop other scenes then the fan bases get mad. If they try to put them in a front burner storyline with either a person threatening the relationship or if the relationship is threatened in any other way the fan bases get unhappy.

It leaves writers not knowing what to do anymore.

The powers that be can no longer focus on just producing a good quality show anymore because they are first off trying to produce a show that appeals to the demo they are trying to win and 2nd they are worried about not ticking off the fan bases.

There is no way in the world that soaps can ever pull out of the doldrums they are in. I am a firm believer in that now.

It is not just the fan bases that are to blame though. The powers that be created these damn fan bases by pushing the agenda of one love that lasts a lifetime.

It is funny that in the 70's and before the divorce rate was lower than it is now. couples generally stayed together longer in real life, but fans back then accepted that not every couple always stayed together. Many of our favorite couples then split up, moved on and never got back together. Also many of our favorite couples lost the love of their life to death and moved on and the loved one didn't suddenly return from the dead. It was all part of life.

Now today the divorce rate is higher but in the soap world esp. with super couples they are supposed to be forever tied to one love and to that love only. It is so unrealistic. Also it makes for bad soap opera.

Bill Bell and Pat Falken Smith kept Days at or near #1 in the 70's by focusing on star-crossed tragic lovers. Guess what he focused on them but they were hardly ever actually couples or together. They were for the majority apart and longing to be together. Bill & Laura Horton were a couple from 1966 to 1980 and were probably happily together as a couple about a year of the whole time. Doug & Julie were a front burner couple from 1970 to 1984 and were together happy without any outside force separating them about a year and a half. For 5 years they hardly even got to kiss and only made love 1 time.

Today the fan bases of those 2 couples would be fuming.

But back then we ate it up. We tuned in everyday and just waited it out - longing for them to be together.

I just don't see how soaps can ever pull out of this at this point. I don't see viewers changing and I definitely don't see writers changing because even if they wanted to the modern viewer wouldn't let them at this point.
BEST FREAKING POST EVER!!! :hail: .

I've been saying this since I joined message boards and while TPTB are to blame, fanbases made an already bad situation worse.

Fanbases weren't always bad. Hell, all of them still aren't. It all depends on the people so it's not fair to lump everyone and every group into one. However, the Internet and constant catering to fanbases has created a monster.

With each year that goes by, it gets worse. What I feel has really hurt is the self-entitlement, almost like the fanbase feels they are the only ones who matter. They completely disregard general fans and other fans. They want their couple on every day. They want their scenes to be longer, not caring about taking away from other characters. They want their couple happy but to face angst. How do you do that? Seriously, I would really like some of these fanbases to start posting story ideas of new, fresh material that can be done with happy couples because I sure as hell can't think of any that would be accepted by the bulk of viewers. That is the problem. The show bends itself backwards trying to appease every fanbase and, in the end, the show suffers because the focus is too narrow. It's not on the whole picture.

I have to laugh because, if you look at Days, it's ratings have been at their highest when the couples were APART. Back in the 90's, when Days nearly tied Y&R, what couples were together? J&M were on the verge of reuniting but were they together? Bope were apart. J&J were apart. Summer 2006...Days had a great ratings summer compared to other soaps in a summer with Bope apart, J&J apart, J&M offscreen, Carrie and Austin apart, Lumi apart...it's all about the stories. It's always been. The only problem is the writers are boxed in. They are too afraid to take risks because ratings are down and they fear fan boycott if they make one false step. How good can a show be if it walks on eggshells? Imagine if Days had done in the 90's what it does not? Same goes for the 80's. What if the Doug and Julie fans pulled some of the stuff other fanbases have in the 80's and the show panicked and decided not to put Bope on the frontburner or go with J&M or whatever?

As a fan of soaps for over two decades, I accepted long ago you can't always get your way. Yes, fans need to be listened too but what works for you might not work for the majority. It's not just about you, individually or as a group. There is more to each show then just one couple or character. These are ensembles. That is what they are. In the 80's, other couples and characters moved to the back for new ones. Well, it's time that happened here with Days. It should've happened eons ago but it's time. The ratings won't change. They are what they are. You can still keep Bo, Hope, John, Marlena, etc involved in stories but they can't drive the show forever. Story ideas are running on empty now and I know some will say they aren't but they are. Name something NEW that has NEVER been done before that they can do that the audience as a WHOLE will be interested in or that general audiences will be interested in. That is what the show should be doing. Focusing on what is best for the SHOW. For the audience as a WHOLE. That is how you attract new viewers. Relying on the same old has gotten this show farther then ever thought possible. It's time to start GRADUALLY shifting gears.

Oh, and another point...some fans need to understand (and this is referred to in my signature too) that you can't bring the past back. It's called the past for a reason. Use history. Use it well. However, start a new golden era. You can't re-create one. It never works. JER tried it. It just doesn't. The characters are different. It's a different era. Much of what worked in the 80's and 90's can't work now. You can take what does work consistently and modernize it and that will work. The one thing Days and any soap needs to do is just tell good stories. Period. Take risks and tell good stories. Don't worry about fanbases or boycotts or whatever. Take the audience on a ride with the idea in mind that what your writing is good enough to keep them until the end. Some of these writers and shows honestly just need to trust their stuff, commit, and go with it. If it fails, it fails. You can fix what you can and do better next time. That is how it was as recently as ten years ago.

Mason is right in that it's many different factors but Steve hit the nail right on the head as to the one that goes hand in hand with TPTB being responsible.

I know this will be denied by those in fanbases and that is fine because, like I said, not everyone deserves to be lumped into one category. It's generalizing to make a point.
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PhoenixRising05
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Rick
Oct 25 2008, 03:22 PM
The internet killed soaps.

We want to bitch and moan about so and so not being on next week so we don't watch. We read spoilers on paper and if it doesn't sound great we don't watch. We don't like the HW so we don't watch. We know too much about backstage drama and it tarnishes the soap.

Soaps in the UK are still going strong because they air in Primetime and they don't release detailed spoilers a month in advance. The audience still has a reason to tune in because of the excitement of not knowing what's going to happen.

It's like watching the movie "The Sixth Sense" You can comment on how great the acting was, but when you already knew that the lead character was dead, the movie sucked. It's the same with soaps. Once we were able to read complete recaps and spoilers weeks in advance, the excitement of watching a serialized drama went away. We already know what's going to happen tomorrow so the old cliffhangers no longer work. I stopped reading spoilers and my enjoyment of DAYS and even GL have improved tenfold.
ANOTHER FANTASTIC POST :hail: .

Seriously, ALL SOAPS...STOP GIVING OUT DAILY SPOILERS!!

Stop with the day aheads. Keep magazine spoilers vague. Stop assuring fanbases in previews that couple A will be ok. Don't give away the story or who is on or whoever. Let people watch. Let them make their decision about how good or bad something is by watching it first. Too many now make their decisions based on spoilers and often the spoilers are not an accurate reflection of what is aired.

I give JER credit because in this 2000's era he was the only one to keep secrets. He kept so many of his big twists so close to the vest and the show benefited big time. It had a spontaneity and excitement that no other soap had because they are too busy giving you the whole God damn event or story in the magazine. Seriously, no wonder so many fans are so easy to turn the TV off now. They can simply read what they miss online or in a magazine.

Oh, and back to this week's ratings, congrats to Days on a nice week. The dailies look real nice and it seems the focus on demos has helped.

AMC will likely get a bump next week. I hope it does. This week was so much better IMO.
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FanODays


PhoenixRising05
Oct 27 2008, 02:59 AM
Rick
Oct 25 2008, 03:22 PM
The internet killed soaps.

We want to bitch and moan about so and so not being on next week so we don't watch. We read spoilers on paper and if it doesn't sound great we don't watch. We don't like the HW so we don't watch. We know too much about backstage drama and it tarnishes the soap.

Soaps in the UK are still going strong because they air in Primetime and they don't release detailed spoilers a month in advance. The audience still has a reason to tune in because of the excitement of not knowing what's going to happen.

It's like watching the movie "The Sixth Sense" You can comment on how great the acting was, but when you already knew that the lead character was dead, the movie sucked. It's the same with soaps. Once we were able to read complete recaps and spoilers weeks in advance, the excitement of watching a serialized drama went away. We already know what's going to happen tomorrow so the old cliffhangers no longer work. I stopped reading spoilers and my enjoyment of DAYS and even GL have improved tenfold.
ANOTHER FANTASTIC POST :hail: .

Seriously, ALL SOAPS...STOP GIVING OUT DAILY SPOILERS!!

Stop with the day aheads. Keep magazine spoilers vague. Stop assuring fanbases in previews that couple A will be ok. Don't give away the story or who is on or whoever. Let people watch. Let them make their decision about how good or bad something is by watching it first. Too many now make their decisions based on spoilers and often the spoilers are not an accurate reflection of what is aired.

I give JER credit because in this 2000's era he was the only one to keep secrets. He kept so many of his big twists so close to the vest and the show benefited big time. It had a spontaneity and excitement that no other soap had because they are too busy giving you the whole God damn event or story in the magazine. Seriously, no wonder so many fans are so easy to turn the TV off now. They can simply read what they miss online or in a magazine.

Oh, and back to this week's ratings, congrats to Days on a nice week. The dailies look real nice and it seems the focus on demos has helped.

AMC will likely get a bump next week. I hope it does. This week was so much better IMO.
I agree that soaps need to stop giving out spoilers. I think the current ratings show that giving them out doesn't get people to watch, in fact it seems to have the opposite effect, people read them then decide if they don't like what they read, they don't watch even though spoilers can be incredibly misleading.

At least one soap should try it but as a prelude they really need to have a story that builds anticipation to the point that people run home to watch. Sadly the last time I remember doing that for Days was the Coronation because it was so vague as to who would get shot and who would die. The story itself was lame but there were so many pieces to it that a sense of anticipation was built that lasted for a few episodes.
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